and wow this is a powerful post… i am so new in knowledge of the big church scene.. so new to the knowledge of the ex-church scene and i’ve just been so taken aback by kathy & the refuge blogs.

i never knew there was such divides in the body of christ.

i never knew the depth of some people’s hatred & frustration with the ‘usual church’.

i can’t say i’ve seen a lot of these issues first hand but what ur saying makes sense….

this one seems most true to me:
“if you have struggled with the same besetting issue for more than 6 months, or have no money, please leave or at least quit asking us for help because we are tired of hearing from you”

i can see that being an attitude i might have & in a lot of churches….. not the money part — but frustration with a person having the same issue for more than 6 months and not trying anything new to ‘fix’ the problem. I’m not sure I am as sympathetic to people as I need to be — I always was told if there’s a problem, either the problem has to change or you do. if the problem isn’t changing, then u change. I guess thats pretty incompassionate… but it just depends on the problem too….

anyway — i am totally just rambling. just wanted to say thanks for challenging me. I’m sorry I’m so naive and you’re probably wanting to puke at what I’ve just - just wanted to be real.

also — don’t white suburban people need christ too? don’t white suburbans need church? don’t those churches do a lot of good as well?

for you all to be frustrated at churches just because they have more resources is like those churches being frustrated at hollywood entertainers who get paid ridiculous amounts of money to spread a lot of evil unpure images & thoughts… but we weren’t called to compare ourselves to others right? Jesus said we don’t need a lot of equipment - that we are the equipment right? In matthew is the first mention of that right? so do you all feel blessed that you’re doing things the way Jesus did it? or are u just envious of what others have?

gosh I really am not typing all this to be rude - I really am just trying to play the devil’s advocate to sort of pick your brains ya know? like i said I’m new to the big church scene. the church I go to is going through a lot of transformations & I have volunteered in many ways — but I see some things that I am confused on…..

but so many times expenditures are validated because of a bigger vision. ya know? we have a ministry in a different country and quite frankly we need money and people and resources to do our work there — so we feel we need to create environments to attract people right? we have to be relevant to culture to want the unchurcherd to come… we are trying to redefine what the typical bible belt south churches have been come to be stereotyped as…. but I do wonder sometimes — are we reaching the sick? will we reach them? and then I remember how the church reached me when I was sick — and I’m a white suburban type - so yes the church is reaching the sick.

i read this book, as the shofar blows, by francine rivers and it really opened my eyes a lot about mega churches — churches who are focused so much on reaching the young they shut out the old…. etc. etc.. anyway — i don’t have any anger for the mega churches around here though……

who are we to judge how we each reach others right? and who we reach?

each separate church body has different purposes and different people they are trying to reach. you all have a unique niche and are reaching different people — but others don’t get ‘mad’ at you for only reaching urban (i assume you’re urban) minorities (i assume that’s who you reach since u all say white suburban a lot)…

I don’t know - I’m all confused

thanks for challenging me. and allowing me a place to process

I think one I would modify is: if you have struggled with the same besetting issue for more than 6 months, or have no money, please leave or pretend like the rest of us that everything is okay because only the “world” faces these issues.”

I remember a youth minister in my early high school years told me that he was quitting his position (which admittedly he wasn’t paid for…though he didn’t want the money), because God had opened a door for him to get a promotion in his company, make more money, and move to FL. It pissed me off that he thought God was responsible for that. Who knows…maybe he was. But it sucked for me. 3 years and 5 youth ministers later though…I have to wonder what God was up to if this was really his will. Maybe our search committee for a youth minister just sucked, or they weren’t offering enough money for the position.

I’m going to attempt to comment here more frequently but I’m more into myself than making sure my friends know they’ve impacted me with their words. (That wasn’t on the list of scenarios you’re still waiting to experience…but now you have.)

Gotta run, my ass hurts.