Comments on: 8 ways to shrink a church http://blog.therefugeonline.org/2007/08/14/8-ways-to-shrink-a-church/ Tue, 07 Feb 2012 13:01:32 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7.1 hourly 1 By: happy 4th birthday, little blog. | kathy escobar. http://blog.therefugeonline.org/2007/08/14/8-ways-to-shrink-a-church/comment-page-1/#comment-2265 happy 4th birthday, little blog. | kathy escobar. Sat, 31 Dec 2011 23:04:09 +0000 http://www.blog.therefugeonline.org/blog/?p=37#comment-2265 [...] to-because-it’s-always-so-nutty-here,  like the 8 ways to shrink a church series, a few more view from the margins interviews, and some stuff that got stirred up at our [...] [...] to-because-it’s-always-so-nutty-here,  like the 8 ways to shrink a church series, a few more view from the margins interviews, and some stuff that got stirred up at our [...]

]]> By: we may look like losers re-dux « Geography of Grace http://blog.therefugeonline.org/2007/08/14/8-ways-to-shrink-a-church/comment-page-1/#comment-2258 we may look like losers re-dux « Geography of Grace Sat, 05 Nov 2011 01:10:06 +0000 http://www.blog.therefugeonline.org/blog/?p=37#comment-2258 [...] popular.  it doesn’t sell.  it is hard.  it is messy.  it is costly.  it’s a sure way to shrink a church.  but in so many ways, as Jesus reminds us of in the beatitudes, we’re somehow blessed living [...] [...] popular.  it doesn’t sell.  it is hard.  it is messy.  it is costly.  it’s a sure way to shrink a church.  but in so many ways, as Jesus reminds us of in the beatitudes, we’re somehow blessed living [...]

]]> By: we may look like losers re-dux | kathy escobar. http://blog.therefugeonline.org/2007/08/14/8-ways-to-shrink-a-church/comment-page-1/#comment-2257 we may look like losers re-dux | kathy escobar. Wed, 12 Oct 2011 03:53:01 +0000 http://www.blog.therefugeonline.org/blog/?p=37#comment-2257 [...] it doesn’t sell.  it is hard.  it is messy.  it is costly.  it’s a sure way to shrink a church.  but in so many ways, as Jesus reminds us of in the beatitudes, we’re somehow blessed [...] [...] it doesn’t sell.  it is hard.  it is messy.  it is costly.  it’s a sure way to shrink a church.  but in so many ways, as Jesus reminds us of in the beatitudes, we’re somehow blessed [...]

]]> By: all things blog | the carnival in my head http://blog.therefugeonline.org/2007/08/14/8-ways-to-shrink-a-church/comment-page-1/#comment-2210 all things blog | the carnival in my head Mon, 03 Jan 2011 19:08:19 +0000 http://www.blog.therefugeonline.org/blog/?p=37#comment-2210 [...] a series on 8 ways to shrink a church, one of my all-time favorite refuge blog [...] [...] a series on 8 ways to shrink a church, one of my all-time favorite refuge blog [...]

]]> By: victim. survivor. thriver. « the carnival in my head http://blog.therefugeonline.org/2007/08/14/8-ways-to-shrink-a-church/comment-page-1/#comment-1575 victim. survivor. thriver. « the carnival in my head Sat, 10 Apr 2010 19:36:52 +0000 http://www.blog.therefugeonline.org/blog/?p=37#comment-1575 [...] our dreams.  we really showed them, ha! (trust me, when it comes to numbers, we’re good at church shrinkage & they’re good at church growth).   then, we’ve spent the past couple of years [...] [...] our dreams.  we really showed them, ha! (trust me, when it comes to numbers, we’re good at church shrinkage & they’re good at church growth).   then, we’ve spent the past couple of years [...]

]]> By: Laurie http://blog.therefugeonline.org/2007/08/14/8-ways-to-shrink-a-church/comment-page-1/#comment-928 Laurie Wed, 17 Sep 2008 00:56:21 +0000 http://www.blog.therefugeonline.org/blog/?p=37#comment-928 This article makes me want to jump and down. Of course, I drank espresso this afternoon. But seriously, what you guys are writing about is enormous. I left a great-looking missions organization in the summer because it only looked good on the outside. The least were still the least. The PR was great, but the programs were empty. It was enormously disturbing. Since then, God has been amazing me every day with his grace. Support has come from old and new friends. I am overwhelmed by his grace. This article makes me want to jump and down. Of course, I drank espresso this afternoon. But seriously, what you guys are writing about is enormous. I left a great-looking missions organization in the summer because it only looked good on the outside. The least were still the least. The PR was great, but the programs were empty. It was enormously disturbing. Since then, God has been amazing me every day with his grace. Support has come from old and new friends. I am overwhelmed by his grace.

]]> By: Elaine http://blog.therefugeonline.org/2007/08/14/8-ways-to-shrink-a-church/comment-page-1/#comment-457 Elaine Thu, 24 Jul 2008 18:18:36 +0000 http://www.blog.therefugeonline.org/blog/?p=37#comment-457 Clarification - in re-reading - I realize my closing statement "if the church/company can "pass" these first 2 items"... Well, I don't mean it as a pass/fail kind of thing - more of if these 2 qualities are "present" - then I can live in this environment. It is almost like needing air and water. Without these 2 elements, it speaks death to me. Clarification - in re-reading - I realize my closing statement “if the church/company can “pass” these first 2 items”…

Well, I don’t mean it as a pass/fail kind of thing - more of if these 2 qualities are “present” - then I can live in this environment. It is almost like needing air and water. Without these 2 elements, it speaks death to me.

]]> By: Elaine http://blog.therefugeonline.org/2007/08/14/8-ways-to-shrink-a-church/comment-page-1/#comment-451 Elaine Wed, 23 Jul 2008 23:45:53 +0000 http://www.blog.therefugeonline.org/blog/?p=37#comment-451 Hi Kath, Just read this one...love it. As someone who attended a mega church for 15 years (on staff the last 5 yrs) - and is no longer attending there... I have to say you have it right. After trying to change the system from the inside, I finally realized they didn't want to change. It was mind boggling to realize they were harming staff and volunteers (and themselves) and the response was - "get in line with the program". Ugh! Your list of 8 really calls out the things I found lacking in the megachurch. I have 2 I would add - and there is some overlap here - but I find I begin with these 2 items in measuring every new church, company, association, etc. that I am thinking of becoming a part of: 1. Transparency - transparency in finances, in hiring and firing, promotions, who gets to speak, problems - NO SECRETS - 2. Dissent - is there space for people to disagree with leadership and each other - does leadership model respectfully disagreeing with each other and with others AND are open to admitting when they are wrong - and still remain friends, that the dissenter is not punished. If the church/company can pass these first 2 items - then I know it is a place where we can have conversations about your 8. thanks, E Hi Kath,

Just read this one…love it.

As someone who attended a mega church for 15 years (on staff the last 5 yrs) - and is no longer attending there…

I have to say you have it right. After trying to change the system from the inside, I finally realized they didn’t want to change. It was mind boggling to realize they were harming staff and volunteers (and themselves) and the response was - “get in line with the program”. Ugh!

Your list of 8 really calls out the things I found lacking in the megachurch.

I have 2 I would add - and there is some overlap here - but I find I begin with these 2 items in measuring every new church, company, association, etc. that I am thinking of becoming a part of:

1. Transparency - transparency in finances, in hiring and firing, promotions, who gets to speak, problems - NO SECRETS -

2. Dissent - is there space for people to disagree with leadership and each other - does leadership model respectfully disagreeing with each other and with others AND are open to admitting when they are wrong - and still remain friends, that the dissenter is not punished.

If the church/company can pass these first 2 items - then I know it is a place where we can have conversations about your 8.

thanks, E

]]> By: Lisa http://blog.therefugeonline.org/2007/08/14/8-ways-to-shrink-a-church/comment-page-1/#comment-225 Lisa Fri, 30 May 2008 22:17:16 +0000 http://www.blog.therefugeonline.org/blog/?p=37#comment-225 I've got to admit, I do like to be entertained. But I have asked myself on more than one occasion, what is the purpose of setting the stage for this message series or retreat or vacation bible school, etc... other than eye-candy and a sense of excitement like I'm at an amusement park. I suppose the staff or volunteers who put it together are expressing their god given talents. That's a good reason. but I've never understood the "we must grow so we can build that cool new sanctuary..." mentality. And for that matter, I don't understand why during stewardship campaigns (which basically means...we're going under could you please us the 10% of your monetary income that God asked of you) usually feature some members of the church who say they didn't think they could afford to give and then voila...after they started giving they found that they had more money, magically. I’ve got to admit, I do like to be entertained. But I have asked myself on more than one occasion, what is the purpose of setting the stage for this message series or retreat or vacation bible school, etc… other than eye-candy and a sense of excitement like I’m at an amusement park. I suppose the staff or volunteers who put it together are expressing their god given talents. That’s a good reason. but I’ve never understood the “we must grow so we can build that cool new sanctuary…” mentality. And for that matter, I don’t understand why during stewardship campaigns (which basically means…we’re going under could you please us the 10% of your monetary income that God asked of you) usually feature some members of the church who say they didn’t think they could afford to give and then voila…after they started giving they found that they had more money, magically.

]]> By: The Thin Edge - 8 Ways to Shrink Your Church http://blog.therefugeonline.org/2007/08/14/8-ways-to-shrink-a-church/comment-page-1/#comment-214 The Thin Edge - 8 Ways to Shrink Your Church Tue, 06 May 2008 11:21:29 +0000 http://www.blog.therefugeonline.org/blog/?p=37#comment-214 [...] so maybe everyone else in the blogosphere has see 8 Sure Ways to Shrink a Church over at The Refuge, but I just discovered it for the first time, so there’s a chance you [...] [...] so maybe everyone else in the blogosphere has see 8 Sure Ways to Shrink a Church over at The Refuge, but I just discovered it for the first time, so there’s a chance you [...]

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